Video Transcript: Controversial Jesus

Henry - Carolyn, I find it interesting that the Gospels are so filled with women, which would  that be a typical type of literature in a movement person in the history of other like the  conquest of this leader, do they have all these stories about the role of women in other sort of ancient heroes, I find it fascinating that they're here. They have a role they support their  patrons. Is that a common  

Carolyn - well, not so much in the what you were saying of conquerors, etc, but in the lives of  philosophers more.  

Henry - interesting  

Carolyn - Yeah. And and many have tried to characterize the Gospels as really, in that literary  genre of lines of philosophers. And because we do have women patrons, and women,  teachers, women, philosophers in some of the philosophic traditions,  

Henry - interesting. Now back to Mary Magdalene. Why do you feel like she was made into such  a superstar of at times juicy proportion? Or somebody who would lead a or be part of a group to France? Or why do you think she was the one in your mind cause there's a lot of  story, a lot of women there, but it just sort of she developed the one that everybody made  into the superstar woman?  

Carolyn - Well, I would be tempted to say that it is male attraction to sexuality. said that she's  someone with whom you can play with this issue of sexuality. And she's she's enticing, you  know, she's enticing but off limits.  

Henry - Right. Right. Right, and it's fascinating. No, but those concepts that she was older, is  Carolyn - the older I get the older Mary Magdalene gets in my imagination.  

Henry - You know, in the story, too of women like Susanna, and others, talk about patronage  just a little bit as we can wrap up this section. That's fascinating to me that really, women  were donors and supporters of the ministry of Jesus. They got engaged, and they participated. 

Carolyn - They still are.  

Henry - But I mean back then that I mean, you that that always first surprises that they  support Jesus out of their own funds, but how would they have supported him?  

Carolyn - With money.  

Henry - In money like he's in ministry  

Carolyn - you know, there's one. There's one author I particularly like her name is Renita.  Weems, who wrote, sort of paraphrases and some of these stories. And she has a paraphrase  on on the dinner of Jesus with Martha and Mary. And when, when Martha speaks, remember  that Mary is at Jesus' feet, and Martha is working in the kitchen, presumably I mean there are  other ways to interpret that. But she has Martha speak and say, you know, I wouldn't have  had asked for help if he hadn't brought 12 friends along. You know, that, just how do these  people eat? You have to, they have to beg their food, or they have somebody and they have a wealthy patron who puts out the money for it.  

Henry - One last question. When Jesus has a relationship with the women in his life, and that  you see is so respectful. Is there a place where Jesus was politically incorrect? As you look  back at, you know, or maybe written about politically incorrect, or isn't it amazing that he  wasn't written politically incorrect in that time? That you I find it fascinating? 

Carolyn - Yeah. Well, there's this thing with the Canaanite woman, Matthew 15. That is, it's  exaggerated in Matthew to compare Mark's version and Matthew's. Because Matthew's motif  during the lifetime of ministry of Jesus is that he's only for for Israel. I have only come for the  lost sheep of the house of Israel. Yeah, he says it twice. And, and here's this Canaanite woman who's not part of the house of Israel, and they're up north anyway, you know, out of Israelite  territory, and and he refuses her at first, you know, I'm not for you. I'm for the I'm only for  these people. And what's exaggerated in Matthew, is that she keeps going and the disciples  say to him, get rid of her, she's bothering us. And that's when he turns to her and says, What  do you want? And she says, Well, you know, she she outsmarts him is what's really going on  in the story. She, she's a better she has a better answer than than he does. And he realizes  he's bested in the argument and does what she wants. So that would be maybe  

Henry - not be you reminded me of actually another kind of thought. Okay, a so that story of  the woman caught in adultery it's always, it always fascinated me that you know, he's is  always trying to be tricked by the Pharisee. Too to what what do you think that scene looked  like?  

Carolyn - Well, the anomaly first of all is, is that the, the passages about stoning for adultery,  say stone, both of them, the man and the woman, not just the woman there's no man there,  right, there's no man who's been accused, and so it's only the woman. So So that's odd. First  

of all, and it is one of those tests of honor and cleverness. You know who who's going to win in this this verbal sparring? And what Jesus does is, as one person says, Whenever Jesus is  confronted with a dilemma, he never solves it on the horns of the dilemma. He always  chooses a third option. Yes. And that's what he's doing there. And so it's another example of  Jesus, not being willing to condemn a person, a woman particularly, but he's got to get out of  this situation somehow, too. Right? You know, that's, that's really, that's what's in it for him.  And he manages to do that.  

Henry - more or less one, do you think that Jesus would have been considered considered by  like, outside critics of him, whether it was Pharisees or others, as being someone who was too pro the role of women in society, he had so many in his life would that have been of not  normal. Would he have been criticized for how he treated women with respect by some in his  culture?  

Carolyn - Maybe the thing that that comes out in the Gospels is not about women, but about  sinners. Right? That he welcomed sinners, and of course, the woman in Luke 7 is one of them. It certainly was, I guess I would say unusual, but not that unusual that he would be really  roundly criticized for that. But it's, it's the way in which he just seems to have accepted  anybody. And and as some have pointed out, didn't require conversion. He just took them as  they were.  

Henry - Interesting. So our Lord, in this teaching you gave has a generous spirit for anybody,  men or women. I guess that's really the material point. This is a class on women. So we have  to not get unbalanced.  

Carolyn - So he doesn't discriminate against women in this case, right. In any case,  

Henry - Right and he loves and he mobilizes. And I did feel that I never really thought of Mary  Magdalene as an apostle. But you're right. She  

Carolyn - it's the earliest tradition about her.  

Henry - yet she saw in reverence to Jesus. And she went there. 

Carolyn - And he says, go and tell my disciples, she's commissioned by the risen Jesus to do  that.  

Henry - The implications of that for women today for you. Go and tell the world that Jesus is  alive. Pretty awesome.