Steve - My name is Steve Elzinga. I'm here with Henry Reyenga. And we want to talk about coaching tips. We learned from rich DeVos. And Henry, maybe you can just say a little. Why are we even talking about Rich DeVos and how did we get connected to him?
Henry - Well back in the 90s, early 90s, Steve and I connected planting churches. And some of the inspiration back then is how do you get ordinary people volunteers bi- vocational career people have that reproducible. That was a big word, be more like the apostle Paul were big words. And so one of the churches that was part of planting was in Colorado Springs, and an Amway distributor, tried to get me into Amway. Now, some people don't like that. But for me, I was impressed when I was impressed, especially because I saw that bi-vocational inspiration here, he was working for the US government in the military. And he was in Amway. And he was talking about how he has these two sources of income and a big dream and all the other things like that. And then I know we talked on the phone and there wouldn't be neat if the founder of Amway could be our mentor, and we knew he was from West Michigan, we went to Calvin seminary.
Steve - So you're talking Amway? That big company,
Henry - the big company Amway? You know, like some people say, well, Amway, and I was impressed because they knew how to reproduce leaders. So we talked it's like I faxed to the corporate headquarters, in Ada, Michigan, a request that Rich DeVos become my mentor, and immediately, your mentor together, because I knew this was our journey, how to get reproducible, Christianity, more leaders mobilized. And amazingly, in 24 hours, he sent me back a fax, cause back then fax machines were all over back then. His corporate secretary said that yes, he'll mentor you. And here are his phone numbers. And here are his car phone number. And it wasn't long, when he invites us to go to the Orlando Magic basketball game to, you know, start these mentoring,
Steve - which by the way, I have a picture of you do look at the
Henry - Rich DeVos, this is, you know, mid early 90s. And there's you which, by the way, you now, look like your son, Mike, in my mind, I see that. There's an Anthony Hardaway, who is a big star back in those days. And of course, there's me, look at those glasses. You know, it became so clear to me in those in that time in those places that Rich Devos with a master coach, and we call it mentorship, but he was all about, you know, what's your dream? What's your goal? Remember that first time we met him? I think it was before this game. This is really when the mentorship began coaching relationship began, right? Yeah. Yeah, he was like, right.
Steve - And what in why were we attracted to Amway anyway, at all?
Henry - We I mean, we we actually became distributors.
Steve - We got going some of the meetings and so on and what, what, what about those impressed us?
Henry - Well we about is that you work about leadership training is about mobilizing people to get their dreams to solve their problems. Some of them financial, you know, ruin they want to be they wanted to have more money to support their families. And but another thing is just all about leadership. And we love that.
Steve - And I remember too, we had both done the build it and they will come model, in church planting which is you build a nice church, you have great sermons, you have great music, and then you attract people. And it's sort of like having a great store, and putting in greeters and having the lights just right. And people love your store and they come to your store. Yeah. And it was burning us out. And it sort of worked, but was dependent on us always
making it better and cooler. And then we saw, I think with the Amway world, where instead of building one big store, every person was a store owner, every person so we thought, shouldn't people own their own faith? Yeah, shouldn't every person every home be a light of Christianity to the community, rather than having to come to the church? You know, like, the church is the big light, No, you're the big light? Yeah. You own this. And we saw ordinary people owning the whole thing, and the and doing things that they wouldn't otherwise do, you know, talking to
you, for example, or here's a guy working for the government and he ends up talking to you, he probably wouldn't have done that without The culture of that as we thought, This is what the church, evangelism, you know, share with your neighbors out there is your faith, whereas I had people that would be like, you know, I have this neighbor, who I think needs Christianity, could you go visit them? Or do you like you're the pastor, you go visit, right? And I'm like, Well, why shouldn't you? And so we started learning that and then, you know, Rich, Rich can see that we're kind of doing the same thing. Yeah, I think he got excited about sharing his stuff in a more spiritual manner.
Henry - What I think what I think he liked, was, instead of being program driven, we wanted to be reproducible people driven, right. He saw that for Christianity environment, remember how used to talk about wasn't early Christianity all about a grassroots movement or leaders in I remember a paper you wrote to him, and he loved what you wrote. And it was a paper how you took the things we're learning from him from our Amway experience, you apply that to this whole, several page. thesis. And I don't even know if you still have that. Oh, we should like find that. And I love to see that now after 20 some years. But it was so interesting, that I remember him talking to me on the phone. So he loved what Steve wrote. And, and I don't know if he ever talked to you about that,
Steve - he actually called me on Christmas Eve, you gotta be kidding. He actually gave and he talked to my wife because I was running before our service was running. And you look how you look. He called a half an hour later again, again? Yeah. It was like, you know, I don't know what, why he didn't have things to do on Christmas Eve, right. Anyway, he was excited for both of us.
Henry - Yeah, he called me I was in Colorado at that time, and he was excited our mood and Oregon minister, but he called me and I said, Steve wrote that was really neat actually cost you.
Steve - So we sort of compiled as probably many more things, but we compiled like 17 tips. Because he you know, reflecting back as we've gotten to this whole coaching thing, we reflected back on that. And really, a lot of what we learned about coaching we got from Rich DeVos he was he was a coach before this thing was a popular thing. His own style is very coaching, or he wanted to help people become the best person that they could be. And it was their dream, not his dream for them. And that's just how we operated. And so we sort of reflected back on that, and came up with a few tips that we got from him that I think will help many of you as well
Henry - in in a very fundamental way. The mentorship of Rich DeVos. And really being our master coach is the inspiration for why we are going into the life coaching minister. whole process here began,
Steve - And why we know what works, It worked with us worked with the people that we've tried to help. In some ways the whole thing of CLI is coming out of that. Yeah. How do we help people become called ministers in their own situation?
Henry - Yes, the connections came out of that, personally through marriage and family group service.
Steve - So let's get to it. Okay. All right. Number one, treat every person as someone who matters to God, John 3:16, God so loved the world, that's every person that He gave His one and only son.
Henry - We saw that, didn't we? I mean, whether it was at a Magic game, he would talk to an elevator attendant, right?
Steve - I remember that, where that person, you know, because we were with him. We were all with the VIPs back elevator that only is known by the VIP people. Yeah. And we were part of that entourage. And all of a sudden he stops. Yeah, and this person is showing pictures of her newest grandchild. And he's just taking his time listening and asking questions. And all of us important people are just standing there waiting it was so impressive that he treated this person like, like she mattered, right?
Henry - And he asked her about her own dreams, her own goals. And in get her to own her life, right.
Steve - And and that's, that is, as a coach, you need to have that genuine care for the people. You're trying to help that you really genuinely care for these people. They're not just a means to some end, right? Exactly. Alright, number two believe in every person, as a child of God with undiscovered possibilities, John 15:5, I am thed vine, you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit apart from me, you can do nothing. So I think Rich had this sense that, that people can bear fruit, I mean that the possibilities are endless. And that you can't judge a person by what they look like, or the education that they've had or their background or what they've done in the past. That if you give people average people an opportunity, right? Who knows what, some people give it an opportunity, and they don't do anything, right. But
Henry - I remember one thing he would say is just never prequalify people, let them show who they are. Don't judge them at a time, don't limit their potential
Steve - and in fact his attitude was everyone has it. Right. But Let them prove they don't have it. Right, don't make that assumption for them. Or they, you know, there might be circumstances in their life that are holding them back now or in the past. But now things are different. Now with coaching. But the attitude was always that they're children of God with so much potential that God has this person on this planet for a reason. And as a coach, you might be the one that can help unlock it.
Henry - That's really awesome. And think about that. That is really neat. Somebody's stuck. And you get to be part of unlocking their potential before the sight of God and others. It's pretty cool.
Steve - All right. Number three. Number three, be positive with people and they will be more positive. And he was he was an incredibly positive person. He saw the potential and the possibilities, rather than always dwelling on the negative.
Henry - Yeah, I always remember how he said, if you look at someone says, are you sick? Okay. And then all of a sudden, you feel sick. He told that story many times, like how, you know, you come into someone, even if they don't look healthy. Totally. Let's say they're having a bad day. Don't point out their bad days, right?
Steve - Find some positive things, right? And they will respond positively it might change them. Right? And so that that's coaching, coaching is seeing the potential, seeing the positive in someone. That's what we want to accent that, you know, maybe there's a lot of negative
things going on. But if you can find the one positive, that becomes a building block for good day.
Henry - I like what the Apostle Paul said, you know, whatever, whatever. Whatever's praiseworthy, think about such things as bright,
Steve - whereas a lot of times we always concentrate on the negative. All right, number four, honor doers. People who try. And the passage that I chose, this is Elijah, Elijah has this bout of depression, where he, you know, he does the Mount Carmel thing. And it's like a big, huge success. But then he fears for his life, and he runs and he doesn't eat and he's tired, and he goes to the mountain of God, and God shows up. And, and, and he complains, you know, God, I'm the only prophet left. Now they're trying to kill me, nothing is working, your plan isn't working my role in it is not working. And then And then God does not deal with any of his complaints. Right? What when God finally speaks in a small voice is this is what he says. And the Lord said, Go, go back to where you came and go to the desert of Damascus when you get there not Hazeal king over Arab and also in there oh gee who's son of Nimshi king over Israel and anoint Elisha son... So in other words, he doesn't deal with the complaint. He doesn't say, you know, I understand how you feel and God just says, Alright, we got stuff to do, and this is what I want you to do. And so in Rich would do that he was honored doing.
Henry - The left one of my last conversations with Rich late in his life, talking on the phone right around Christmas. 2018. He said, You know, you guys are doers. I go do that. To the kingdom meet doers who just try in any may fail, right? Do it. Right. Don't hold back, right?
Steve - It's hard to, to drive a parked car. If it's moving, you have a shot at actually turning the wheel right?
Henry - And then think about what has stymied you in the past. And when you actually got out of a funk, and started moving, right, and maybe it didn't go great at first. But there, there was something happening some energy and all these spirits started opening new doors, right?
Steve - Or at least the Holy Spirit can say, okay, that's the wrong direction going this? Yeah. So the coaching really, bottom line is about trying to get someone to do something, right. Because people I mean, there's a talking trying to understand, right, but eventually things don't change unless your client does something. So that's why we continually say, you have to move towards some kind of action.
Henry - You know, a lot of counseling and pastoral counseling, sometimes gets stymied, because somebody comes and they want to, you'll listen to their story, and you will, as a minister. And I've had it where, especially young in my ministry, where people would come in right around the time when this mentorship started. I started transforming even in my own ministry, where people would come in, I had more of a doing so what are you gonna do about it? Now? I thought it was interesting is no longer did I have these long, ongoing counseling relationships and never went anywhere? But because those who did something didn't need me? Those who would not want to do anything? Did not want to see me.
Steve - No one wants to keep hearing well, what did you do and what I did nothing? Well, what did you do? I did nothing. So they drop out that you're right.
Henry - That was all a direct relationship of his life coaching, life Minister coaching to me back in the 1990s.
Steve - Alright, number five, never underestimate the potential of anyone Philippians 4:13. I can do all things through Him when who gives me strength.
Henry - Right? It's kind of similar to don't prequalify anyone, but it's different in that it actually sees in people more than maybe our prejudice would already limit out of them. Right? Yeah.
Steve - In some ways, the average person limits those Rich always said stuff like that. People have disqualified themselves. Yeah. Whatever opportunity that people are doing that too. But then as a coach, or as a mentor, we sometimes do the same thing to the person we're trying to help. Yeah, you know, you're not going to be able to do this. I'm gonna try
Henry - Yes, not smart enough. This person has other than that education. Yeah. And then we have systems around us that constantly pre pre qualified but disqualify people to offer to
Steve - you don't have this, you don't have the right background, you don't have the right to fail, live in this area. you don't make enough money, all those things.
Henry - I remember growing up the son of a factory worker mechanic, and I felt at times, like, disqualified in things I wanted to do, you're going to college, or you're gonna get training or, you know, you're you're not much of a reader growing up, you know, all these internal voices that I talked myself that way, but Rich did not think that way. In the like coaches don't either.
Steve - So it's always seeing the potential. Now, what is the potential? Yeah. All right, number six. If you help enough people get what they want. You will get what you want.
Henry - Interesting. And, really, this is the essence of the word, diakonos. Deacon, it's really it to be great. you must be the least, right?
Steve - In some ways, every business only succeeds if it meets the needs of others. Right, right. I mean, not right. If you have a product that no one wants, it doesn't help anybody. Your business isn't going to last. Right? But I think you know, for myself when Rich said it this way, is because I think a lot of times, it's easy to think, Okay, how do I get what I want, right? And that's kind of the motivation How do I how do I get the job I want how do I get enough money that I want and how do I get the right spouse? How do I but for him saying it this way I was like, Okay, I'm not going to get what I want. If I keep doing this, right? I'm not going to get the spouse that I want, if that's what I'm thinking, how can I be a great person to this girl? And maybe she'll want me, right? You know, it helped me turn things around that you're not going to get what you want that, that the good things in life that come to you are really a byproduct of what you do for others. Yeah.
Henry - And in reflecting on that Deacon thing was similar to Rich DeVos things when Jesus said, If you want to be great, because the disciples were figured out, who's gonna be the greatest, okay? Now, what Jesus says is something that feels into their self interest. You know, if you want to be great in there, and we want to make an impact, and we want to make a difference. And there's nothing wrong with that, you know, first, some of the talks about is to be an overseer is a good thing. So we want to make an impact, but then to help others.
Steve - And in the end, you know, it seems counterintuitive, but when you help others, it boomerangs back to you. Yeah.
Henry - But you don't do it? Because if I do this, yeah, yeah. You have to genuinely care about other people, again, like, manipulate the situation, I'm going to be nice to you. Because ultimately, I know that's going to be better for me. And that's how the world does it. Yeah. And people smell that
Steve - Number seven, make a stage for the other person. So this is, in a ways similar. A lot of times we're looking for our stage, how can I be important? How can I be the first in line? How can I get the raise? How can I and, and so, you know, if you if you're in a company and you
manage people, sometimes, you know, I have all these people to help me succeed. Right? And then when there's a company event, how do I get the stage? And how do I have people help me take the Stage? Rich, you know, basically was telling us, you know, when you can give up the stage to others, it actually comes back better for you. Yeah, people will lift you up. If you lift them up, in
Henry - and he was a master at that. And in that he was a master with our lives. And yeah, go do likewise. And it is counterintuitive. Don't wait, think about that. Steve, is counterintuitive, that helping others, like a lot of times, people get a job, they want to be so indispensable, they can't be fired. So then what happens they often, like get into a little silo here, and they don't even let anybody and even an intern know the secret thing they're doing so they won't be let go and Rich says, let the intern know. Encourage others. Build everybody up. Does that really work?
Steve - I think it does. while you're talking, I remember the first time we went to his house. And we were at his house and we had just put together a discipleship kit, just like the Amway kit. When you join Amway, you get a kit that helps you sell, or what have you. And we put together a kit that had a serendipity Bible and prayer thing and tapes and help and all these things. And we came to his house and there was someone else visiting him. Right. And he, you know, and we're excitedly talking about our kit, and we had a car. He said, we'll go get it. And he gave us a stage right there. to sort of give Yeah, yeah. Howard and Adelle. Dr. Howard? Yeah. And, and he gave us the stage in his house. This is his guest here. Yeah. But he gave the whole stage to us. So we could present the whole thing. And it was really the first time we got to present it to him, right. But he gave us the stage there where we could get excitedly sell the thing, and you know, try it out. Because we had just put it together. And that was such an encouraging and then he bought two kits. Yeah. So again, you know, good job guys. I'm supporting you. I'm behind you. And with that kind of encouragement, you know, we've launched into so many things. Exactly. Alright. Number eight, reward what you want repeated. You know, that whole recognition piece in the whole Amway business, trying to make a system Where, when you do something, well, you get rewarded for it. Because he told us stories of how so often in life, the reward and good things come to those who manipulated it, or because of who you knew, or because of what you look like your connections. And he was like, I want a system where you do it. I don't care who you are here to do. smart you are. I don't care how connected you are. If you do it, you get rewarded. Yeah.
Henry - When I felt too, like, he pushed the word reward in blurted into the word celebrate. Yeah.
Steve - We'll talk a little bit more about that. But one of the things I remember, I think I have this question, what do you want to do? I remember when we met at his house, we had just moved. We just moved to Chicago. We're gonna start our own nonprofit. And we didn't have money. We had one business guy said, I'll let you have to be in my office, and so on and so forth. But we didn't have we didn't everything totally in order. And we were meeting with him, you know, sort of the idea, hey, will you help us get our nonprofit going? But I remember when we walked into his house, and without all kinds of chitchat and all these things, what do you want? What do you want? What do you want? What do you want? That's right. That's what life coaching is. What do you really want? And getting to it, because ultimately, we can talk and talk and talk. But so he helped us, like get to and we had a right then had to get right to it. What is it we really want? It forced us to figure out what we really wanted.
Henry - And that was the essence of the life coaching relationship because it started with that DNA. Yes. It did not start with the DNA. I'm just going to tell you what to do. I'm going to counsel you. No, it was what do you want?And let's get a plan. Let's talk about where this could go.
Steve - Yes. And not beat around the bush and they said then we can go have fun and go to the game. Yeah.
Henry - This is actually memory maybe should quit here on this session, and then we'll continue on with what we learned from Rich in the next session. All right.