Video Transcript: Critical Pleasure Theory

Steve - Alright, Henry, we're back Topic number three,  

Henry - critical pleasure theory.  

Steve - I don't know if I've ever heard a talk on critical pleasure theory.  

Henry - Well, in the history of the world, in the world of philosophy, it's called like  epicurean. But me today is clearly the critical pleasure theory, the dominant  theory that it's everywhere.  

Steve - So everything relates to pleasure. 

Henry - Pleasure, not just pleasure in that you feel good after you eat or in  there, and you've had sexual relations with pleasure. But actually, like, rooted,  like, deep within, like, our life is so short. Eat, drink and be merry, for tomorrow,  we die, not just that is an entire worldview of pleasure.  

Steve - those with the power tend to maximize their own pleasure at the  expense of others. So that would be like, critical pleasure theory. Yeah, right. So  then it's unfair. And it's demonstrated, all throughout cultures. So within families,  sometimes, you know, one family member is doing everything that they want to  do at the expense of others, or sometimes in a marriage, marriage, some things  don't work out, because each one is seeking their own pleasure and not the  pleasure of the other. Right.  

Henry - And what's happening is the critical pleasures theorists, they would call  themselves but through the injustices and inequalities of things. This is sort of  like an add on theory that is often like, put in with another one. So like, you'll  have like, rich, white men who can have jets and have islands and have exotic  life. But, but it also relates to like, other equality inequality theories, even like  women's rights. So here's an example where the critical pleasure theory marries the equality debate about women's rights, for instance, it's very fascinating how  these tend to combine together sometimes.  

Steve - So current social manifestations because there's many of them but the  one we Okay, very good.  

Henry – On demand divorce, abortion.  

Steve - So we're probably gonna have to unpack how this relates to our topic, 

Henry - critical pleasure theory what does abortion have to do with it. Well, I  know Margaret Sanger, in the 1930s, wrote about how women were not allowed  to experience the same quality of life and pleasures that men were having,  because they were forced to bear children.  

Steve - A lot was at stake for them. Right? Right. They're gonna get this child  that now they have to deal with the rest of their life, where the man was, like free to do whatever he wants and experience things and then move on, the woman  was not  

Henry - contraception in all of its various forms. And then I know that what  happened in the 1960s in America, is they saw the social justice, they needed a  social justice issue of back alley abortions. But first it was the plausibility that a  child should be eliminated if that child got in the way of a woman's happiness.  

Steve - And, again, it's not just a woman's happiness, but the unfairness that  the man gets to be free and be happy and the woman doesn't. That's interesting. So the basic arguments going on in our culture so we had the right to life  argument, every human being has a God given right to life, including the unborn. The right to choose argument, women have been abused by men for most of  human history, because they have the burden of bearing and often caring for the children. It is a woman's body and she should have the right to do with it as she  pleases.  

Henry - There's the conflicting the conflict side of this theory here.  

Steve - So there has always been the dilemma of personal choice, and how  that choice affects others.  

Henry - On this issue, you can certainly see that. If a life was created in a  woman's womb and then as a contraception means that life was taken away. It  would seem like an injustice occurred to someone. I mean, even laugh about  that, right? I mean like having the intellectual AHA laugh. Injustice occurred to  someone.  

Steve - But we all understand that there is this dilemma for example, you have  the right to do whatever you want with your body. So in other words you can  smoke, even though it's detrimental to your body, you have the right to do that.  But at least in the United States, you do not have the right to smoke in a  restaurant or, and why. Because your personal right to do whatever it is you  want to do, is limited. When it affects the right of someone else. That's where the conflict is. So if I have the right if say, I am a woman and I have the right to do 

what I want with my body. That right is not absolute. It's limited by either by me  exercising that right without hurting anyone else. Right? So this is where people  that are pro life say, Well, you can't have an abortion without hurting the unborn  child.  

Henry - But how could you go there, I mean a life. How does this even go there.  Baby, young and how does this even happen?  

Steve - Yeah. How? How? So how can a woman have the right to kill an  innocent human being in the name of personal choice? How is that even  possible? How is that even possible that we could have arrived here? I guess  that's, you know, for those of us that are in the right to life world.  

Henry - You'd have to find a theory. There has to be a why I can abort a baby  theory. And there must be, you know,  

Steve - if people would watch a video on abortion, there's no way that you can  see this is not a human being. Right.  

Henry - And I know from Christian Leaders College and Institute students,  hundreds have come to Christ. And they had an abortion. In the consensus that  we clearly see in the testimonies after testimonies, testimonies written with  them, with these women who did not know Christ at the time and somehow, they got an abortion and the agony, and how they how Jesus Christ forgave them,  and they knew that they took a life they knew it was killing. So it's so interesting  how clinical it becomes in the news media. But the self evident observation of  the irresistible, self evident observation of the people that we see, if we did a  scientific study, it would be there was a consensus that was a life taken so how  is it possible that social sciences can send us in another way?  

Steve - So so how can a woman has the right to kill an innocent human being in the name of personal choice? Number one, this is one way that culture has used to sort of justify the question of the humanity agenda. We call the unborn child a  fetus. But again, if you watch a video of a real abortion, that fetus looks a lot like  an unborn child. Right? It's still that that alone does not have preborn humans.  

So it seems like this one isn't enough to get us any  

Henry - and here too. I noticed like the social justice angle on that. Well, what is  what about the cases of rape and incest? You know, right away those  exceptional cases which are a small percentage of them. But we Christians  could not say well, in the case of rape brings us because we're convicted of  each child is an image bearer. But if we were to say, well, let's just say okay, 

rape in such work, it would we would not say the fact is, to make it a social  justice issue. Seems a little bit hypocritical. Well, whose justice? Is there a pre  born baby justice?  

Steve - The most innocent defenseless, if anyone is a victim, the lowest that  you can possibly go on the victim scale. defenseless, has no voice. It would be  the unborn, right? I mean, we save whales, but we get a right whatever problem  with unborn children. Right. Okay. Well, if there is, I think the question of  humanity, the humanity of the unborn just isn't a very good one at all. I don't  think that's what sells. I think that's what justifies anything. I don't think it helps  anybody. But I think it's number two. If there is no God, then as Paul writes, you  know, at least talking about the resurrection if there is no resurrection Let's eat  and drink and be merry. for tomorrow we die. Right, right. So I think what has  happened is the whole sexual experiences become a physical, recreational  sport, right?  

Henry - Back to Margaret Sanger and many others in the 30s. I mean, even  Hitler have similar, how have you thought about eugenics and all these things. I  mean, this is all in our history within 100 years ago.  

Steve - So it really boils down to, again, pleasure. It's just a thing that gives you  pleasure or not pleasure. And so that's all it is. And that's all there. If there is no  God, then this is all I have, right? There's no heaven. So pleasure is about as  close to heaven as I can possibly get, I got to sieze I gotta grab, that's been a  real pleasure. If something is stopping me from the one piece of heaven that I  can maybe get, then somehow I gotta get past it.  

Henry - So my life, my happiness is all that matters. The unfairness for women  to have to bear the consequences for the bad effects of strictly recreational  activity that men can participate without consequences.  

Steve - So I think that's what justifies it in people's minds that this is a pleasure.  And Pleasure is all that there really is. So that's why it's pleasure, critical  pleasure theory, right? Because it says everything is pleasure, right? And if I  can't get the one thing that there is because of this unfair thing, right? And now  abortion is like my last stand, that can help me get it or not get it, right. And now  you're gonna say, I can't do that. So then it becomes a women's rights issue.  And then how do you argue, especially as men, here we are men, speaking  against this? Who are we to speak we're the were the people that take  advantage. So and so you? Were the ones that have no consequences? We  chose to do that. Right. So then you can't speak to it? So what's the answer to  the dilemma? Okay, this leads to this dilemma, many women want the 

consequences of free sex, or free sex life, as they believe men have, so  abortion takes away the negative consequences. But because of that men take  even less responsibility for their actions. 

Henry - So you say men even become more rotters in this world.  

Steve - Because now, now in their mind, yes, sex is just a physical recreational  activity. It's not tied to any real consequence, right. And if the woman doesn't  prepare herself, then she can always have an abortion.  

Henry - I'm interested in the critical grace theory, understanding of pleasures,  and so forth.  

Steve - So again, everything relates to grace. There is a righteous God. We are  sinners in need of grace. Once we have received grace and become forgiven  children of the king, we are in the kingdom. Part of what it means to be in the  kingdom is to procreate, thus elevating sex to an incredibly purposeful,  pleasurable and meaningful level.  

Henry - So what you're saying then is that God created pleasure in a place that  blesses us and blesses our culture. Not in a place that disenfranchises and  hurts our culture.  

Steve - So in our culture, we let men off the hook, they can have sex, and  procreate all they want, and then they can not take on responsibility. We have  women who can now have an abortion, if they become pregnant, and therefore  we have this space where sex is just a recreational sport. And none of it is  meaningful, right? None of it ties people together or helps people, you know,  make something important out of it. Right? So it's become a total mess. It  doesn't bring people together, it separates people, right?  

Henry - You know, what's fascinating is? Since we are undeserving of grace, we  don't run around, seeing how we're missing out. We don't dwell on how unfair  things might seem to be, we realize that we've been blessed with the honor of  creating as God did Adam and Eve. Or if you're a single man or woman, the  worldview of creating. What does that mean? 

Steve - so right now because sex There is no God. Sex is pleasure, right? And  so sex is just one of those pleasure experiences, and we need to do all we can  to maximize it. We're critical grace theory, now there's a God. There is  righteousness, and there is a need for his, there's sin. And that's why the  brokenness in relationship, abuse, sexual abuse and all those things. But God 

does the grace that God created this sexual experience within the confines of a  marriage, right? To reflect Him. He gives us this incredible honor. I mean, God  created the first two individuals, and he let us do the rest. I mean, that's an  incredible honor. That that we're, you know, that we're not taking advantage of.  

Henry - And since we have purpose, as children of God, we do not need to eat,  drink, and be merry as a life goal.  

Steve - Right. So now pleasure is not the one thing that we're going after. And,  you know, and we can deal with things that are hard, and we can you have five  children, I have four children, and it wasn't always easy. But what an honor to be a part of it, and it's still not easy in the grandchildren's, all those things that God  

let us be a part of. But we, we honor that, and we, you know, we take  responsibility for that not, the other side is not taking responsibility, right?  

Henry - I often think about the word joy, you know, the absolutization of  pleasure, eat, drink, and be merry, maybe for a human for their senses, can give the illusion of something greater. And that is, the joy of the Lord is our strength,  right? So I can enjoy marital sexuality, pleasurably. But deeper than the sexual  experience itself, is the joy of the Lord. In that marriage. You know, we're coming on to almost 38 years at the time of this taping. It's fascinating to see that  pleasure, I can eat food, I know that if I eat too much, it ultimately hurts me. So  you know, and I know that I have a brother in law, who just retired as just a hero, a emergency room nurse for 40 years of fighting that battle and then became a  supervisor. And he said, in the last several years now there's becoming a huge  obesity problems, where they, the hospital must give special tools to move  people. And they're young, like somebody who's 50 or 60. But he says, when he talked with people, he said, critical is the most compassionate man, one of the  most compassionate men I've met in my brother in law. And they taught the  theory, look, this is all there is I don't want to get necessarily old. I just want to  live now and enjoy life. And then there's a times where, where even with the  whole legalization of drugs. The pleasure is not nearly connected to the abortion issue. We just took that issue, sort of like the key thing that we're talking about  here, like how can one my rights for pleasure, hurt another person's rights. But  we see that we're driving and drinking, you drink and drive and you know, and  ultimately, you don't exercise moderation anymore. So this is not something that  we oh, that's just one issue. This is a all encompassing issue. Pleasure theory,  really is the sinful nature.  

Steve - And ultimately, if you seek pleasure as the ultimate god you will not find  the pleasure you seek. The pleasure that you seek is comes in a relationship 

with God a pleasure in a marriage. The marriage is better because people are  faithful. 

Henry – That's this passage about marriage, Genesis 2:26 says That is why a  man leaves his father and mother and is united with his wife and they become  one flesh. That's a powerful to think that two humans, become one  

Steve - and you know in Genesis 1 in the creation of man, that God says, Let  us right the Triune God Father, Son and Holy Spirit let us make man in our  image and then it takes two to reflect that image and then in Genesis 2 the two  become one like the three in one right so we God allows us in this whole sexual  experience, to reflect the very image of God right  

Henry - So ministry, if you're dealing with someone that struggles with  pornography, you deal with someone who has had an affair. You deal with  someone who has no self control over alcohol or food, addictions, you're dealing with someone who is so into sports, that that's the only pleasure the endorphins  of winning the pleasure game are all that matter. You know? So in ministry now,  you know, after you hear this, you can start saying, well, maybe we all are sort  of prone to this, we're prone to the addiction, you know, and it's easy for one  person who's overcome one thing, to look critically, the critical racers critical  judgment theory on someone else, who, you know, and somehow in the here's  Satan, too, I mean, look at the Garden of Eden, they looked at the tree for food  and then Satan pleasurable to did God really say, and now, here we are the  human condition. And critical Grace theory says, No, God looks at us, as  forgiven in Jesus Christ. And we look at another forgiven Jesus Christ, but the  world view we reject, if I fall victim to some of my own pleasurable shortcomings  or whatever, I know that that is not my life. I remember we grew up we both  came from similar churches. Every single week, my Pam and I were talking  about this, my wife, Pam and I were talking about this this weekend, every  single week, they read the 10 commandments. And sort of I did feel quite  honestly beat up a little bit, because how many of those for the sinful nature in  the last week? Actually? Yeah. I think I lied. For him to be alive, or, or, you know, like, Jesus says if you look lustfully at a woman. Did I really commit adultery. Or,  or you hope grow up, and most men and women have been pornography. You  know, most of us have lied, most of us have. We've gone against, you know, the  worship of God and worship, other things that our hearts. And then my wife and I were talking about that Steve about how there's that. But then there was that  place right after that call to confession, where I remember, you know, if I would  like, right, talk about them in prayer to Lord, you know, and somewhere, already  forgave my sins in Jesus Christ. This is for my benefit, not to have a heavy  weight. And then there was the assurance of pardon. If you if you confess your 

sins, He is faithful and just to forgive your sins and purify you from all  unrighteousness. Now, I bring out a lot, because at the end of the day, the  critical grace theory is to say God really knows your frustration. You know, he  really knows that you have weaknesses in your flesh. And he knows we all do.  But that doesn't mean we can start getting, you know, all that matters is me. So  we don't adopt a worldview of the critical pleasure theory, while we still are  prone to sin. 

Steve - in some ways, the critical grace theory gives us a way out of the  addiction. Whereas if there was no grace, but further, you know, if I was into  food, and that was what gave me pleasure in my life, and there's nothing else,  why would I get out of it? So people will say, you know, I'd rather die young and  eat poorly. Because this is the one thing that gives me pleasure. Well, with  grace. Let's say I'm into food, just the same. I love food. And I didn't know you  like I really like but. But yes. That would be your thing but grace gives me a way  out of that. I can say, Lord, I don't want to be dominated by this. Please help me  with this addiction, help me be more moderate. And these things. In other words, there's some answer to it. And there's some way out where the other way.  There's no way out.  

Henry - I am still loved and accepted. My human sinful person? Well, I mean, I  think it's a very interesting topic. Now in ministry, I brought that up a little bit. I  wanted you to comment on that. So what how do you minister with this theory so prevalent? It's almost not talked about but it's everywhere.  

Steve - - I think because you have people get stuck on these addictions. Right?  But I think a lot of times it's the second it's just the manifestation of the deeper  problem, right? So the deeper problem might be a lousy marriage. The problem  might be not a walk with God, the deeper problem might have might be as not a  sense of my call or my purpose or what gifts God  

Henry - we'll get moralistic, but we scratch on the surface, but don't really fire  someone about so we should do a marriage retreat, right? No, just get married. 

Steve – In other words it's not just about getting someone over a food addiction.  Let's talk about food. No, we got to talk about your whole life because maybe  food is just the surrogate right? thing. Because the other things are missing.  

Henry - Right? So in ministry, and that's why you're taking many of the classes if you are in CLI as we're learning how to really become servants to help people  grow in some of these areas. One more comment, I think to myself is don't be so hypocritical, that you are not someone who fall victim to that critical pleasure, 

experience. We all struggle with in maybe to be that gracious pastor who points  to Jesus Christ but Jesus Christ is pointed to in your own life because you need  I still need him. Well, very good, I'm looking forward to this continued study.