Video Transcript: Ethnic Culture Interview with Mia Clark

Welcome back to learning to lead. And we've been learning about the leader and how God will form a leader and how our backgrounds all play into that, as well as our personalities our  spiritual giftedness, our life experiences, all of that God puts into us being a leader, all of our  strengths. And all of our weaknesses are part of that. And we've already begun the discussion on culture, the way we do things here, and we talked about American culture and what that  looks like and I asked you to translate that into where you are as far as how we discover what  the culture is. And then how do you discover what the culture is in a certain place? Well, I  want to introduce to you today, a new friend. For me. This is Mia Clark Grissom. She is an  educator in the city of Muskegon, Michigan. And somebody I got to know of a second hand  that in the church of which I was a pastor, we had a class on racial reconciliation, And Mia was gracious enough to come down and be part of that class for a Sunday just to help us  understand in my community, which is predominantly white, a little bit more about what it's  like to be a person seeking recia reconciliation and love from that side. So welcome.  

Mia -Thank you. I'm so glad to be here.  

Bruce - Mia, it is such a privilege for you to be here. But tell us a little bit about yourself. Let's  start that way. Just some of the background that's gone into making you the person you are  today.  

Mia - Okay, well, what's really, really crazy is I was born and raised in Brooklyn, New York. And I was raised to a middle in a middle class family. However, I've you know, as a teenager, I  wanted to do my own thing. And I thought I knew everything. And I got into the drug culture  and everything. And so the Lord had to save me from that. And even in my experiences in the drug culture, my mom forced us to go to church whatever we did Saturday night, Sunday  morning, we were in church. And so that's where I grew up in church. I know the Lord. I didn't  know him on a personal level until I became an adult. But I knew that I knew of the Lord and  you know, the Bible says that if you train up a child, you know the way they should go when  they're old, they won't depart from it and everything that I would hear even while I was at  church back then it still comes to my remembrance scriptures, different songs and things like  that. But so I came here to go to a for called Teen Challenge, from Brooklyn, New York to  Muskegon, Michigan, it was like, oh my god, different worlds. Two different worlds totally. And  so with Teen Challenge, I did a year there and after I finished graduated from the program, I  got married and I stayed here in Muskegon. Yeah! 

Bruce - Well, tell us about, it's a different world from Brooklyn, New York. What's different  about that, as far as the culture of a large city, Brooklyn, to West Michigan? 

Mia - Everything where where I'm used to hearing city noise fire engines, just people hustling  and bustling all the time. It was crickets. And what I'm okay, it was nothing, you know, I could  hardly sleep because there was no noise at all. So that was really a culture shock.  

Bruce - I've got grandchildren who live in Seattle. When, the first time they came to visit a few years ago, after we'd moved to this area. We got out of the car and one of them said,  "what'sall that noise?" It was noisy at night. With all the various pictures and buzz.  

Mia - yes, it is. It's, it's really something. And what's funny is, well, in the big city, of course,  there's so much to do, you know, it's like New York never sleeps. And so you can always find  something to do. But here, you go to church, you go to the movies, and you're done. There's  really not a lot more to do. So that was a big change for me as well.  

Bruce - Well, you are an educator, you're not necessarily in the classroom, but you're  somebody who's in that position of making decisions about education. How did you get  attracted to get an education in education? 

Mia - Well,you know, the Lord, after the Lord saved me, he put on my heart to work with  young people. And I was a housewife, and I didn't work. I just, you know, was home all the  time, and I start to get bored. And a friend of mine came to me, she said, you know, the kids  were talking about their school and stuff. And so I started to talk to young people that I was  working with, in the church. And they were, you know, had so many complaints about what  was going on in their school. So I said, Okay, I'll just go in and speak for you guys and speak  to the principal. I walked in the principal's office, just as someone to you know, say, Hey,  these are the children feeling. And I walked out with a job and then he, he immediately hired  me, I mean, right on the spot to serve as the dean of students. And so I said, Wow, well, since  I want to be in education, I want to work with kids. I might as well educate myself. And so I  went on to get my masters and well now I'm finishing. I just finished my Ed specialist degree,  which is a step under the doctorate and I will continue on and get my doctorate degree in  that. So it was like a street kid from Brooklyn came to Muskegon and the Lord blessed her to  earn a doctoral degree so that was a blessing.  

Bruce - Yeah, well as we talk about how God prepares leaders. Often you just see those things moving from here to there and or why, well, here's why.  

Mia - God does those things.  

Bruce - It's just rather amazing.  

Mia - He really is. He really is.  

Bruce - So one of the differences too, as being a guest in your church a couple of weeks ago,  the church culture in the African American church is very different from the church culture  and the typical white American church. Reflect on that a little bit from your perspective.  

Mia - You know, I, I've learned because I attended First Presbyterian here in Grand Haven, and  beautiful spirit. It's, it's a little quieter. But I mean, the pastor specs spoke so well. I mean, it  was just, you know, everything was just really, really nice. It's just that we tend to have a little bit more fun, I guess, you know, we shout, we dance, we wave our hands. I mean, we just, we  make a lot of noise. Whereas the other churches, like in Spring Lake in Grand Haven, they're  just a little bit more quieter. But they know the Lord and they, they share him in their way. So  they praise him in their way.  

Bruce - And being in your church and worshiping with other African Americans in this area as  well. I find that the preacher often feeds off the response of the people. The fact of we were  talking earlier about being in a Good Friday service. And the first pastor is just encouraging  people to respond, and especially us more conservative, white folk. And the next guy who got  up because they were doing various pastors were their rotation, then this guy got up  uprightness. And now he said, if you're respond while I'm preaching, he says, I'm going to be  distracted, I'm gonna lose my place so just please be quiet but such is life. Right? The  difference in culture, the expressionism the desire to be an emotional part, yes. I grew up in a  denomination is very much head knowledge and emotions, you just didn't touch those a  whole lot as far as religion goes.  

Mia - Right! I see Well, in our church, the more you the more the more you speak out. Or the  more you say, amen, or the more you say, preach, or any, anything you say to the preacher,  it makes them want to go more harder and longer. And so sometimes we'd be like, Okay, let's  not encourage him. We'd be there forever.  

Bruce - That, too. It's just one of those cultural things. Yes, it is. It's part of the way we do  things here that's the way we define culture, the way we do things here, right, right, as  different between African American churches, this one on that one, and white churches the 

same and, and writing of ethnic groups that are going to be listening to this interview. But the  idea is to understand the cultures.  

Mia -Right. And even though the culture is different that the the premise is real. It's all about  worship, it's all about praise. It's all about learning about the Bible and learning scripture and  learning about God. And so I've learned that that happens in both churches. We just a little bit noisier.  

Bruce - Of course. One of the things that struck me in hearing your story, as we talked to our  class at church was the fact that here you are, you're in this position within the Muskegon  school system. And you're going to start a charter school next year.  

Mia - Yes, I, I've worked for the public school system. And and the charter school is a public  school, but it's not a traditional school. And so right now, I currently work for a charter school  called Muskegon Covenant Academy. And it's just a phenomenal school where we work with  all types of students that come from various different backgrounds who have struggled in  their home districts. And so we try to help them get back on track. But with the charter school that I want to open, the one I work at now, is a high school, I want to open, I am going to  thank you, Lord, I am going to open a school for elementary students, and we'll work with  them wanting everything is centered around test scores and things like that. But I want to be  able to provide a quality education that is not being done in the urban communities. And  what's really what really, really pushed me to do it is because a lot of times and not only to  work with the kids, but to work with teachers as well, because we have a lot of staff teachers  that come from suburban communities that have never been in the hood have never been to  the ghetto have not experienced, you know, what African Americans or people of poverty  experience so I want to train them how they can best help these particular types of  demographics, to do better and to excel in school because I'm a firm believer that education  is the only way out of poverty and paying your tithes.  

Bruce - Well, that's something we've talked about in this class is just the fact that changing  the changing is what leadership does, it changes things, but it starts with a need or a desire,  right? And the leader sees that, boy, this has to change, this must change, and how, and that  drives us to, to learn during the people work through a variety of things. Now, what are some  of the changes, you're hoping this charter school will accomplish? One that you're going to be  working with the teachers, but what part of the African American culture is this going to  touch?  

Mia - It's, it's going to the particular community that I work in the demographics of the  students are very, very low functioning. The families, single parent homes, mostly mothers  raising children by themselves, poverty, so many different things, disease, sickness, you  know, and, and our children suffer because they don't have the opportunity to to get so many things that they might need things that are, you know, a quality as far as it might be norm to  the suburban person, but it's, you know, like, we don't get that in the urban community. But I  want to open their minds to know that everything that anyone else can have, you can have as well. And so it'll reach those students that are struggling, not only academically, but as far as  financially and live in situations, homeless situations, couchsurfing, we have a lot of that lot of teenagers and students, they couchsurf, they go from house to house, just looking for a place  to lay their heads. And so those are the students that I want to work with, those are the kids  that I want to cater to, I want to make sure that they have an equal opportunity.  

Bruce - Something's got to change.  

Mia - Because our future and and if I mean, if I look at my, my students today, if I look at the  African American culture today, I wouldn't want them to be my leader in the future. I deplore  the pants hanging behind, you know, underneath their knees, and, and things like that, but 

that's what they see. That's what they see on TV, they think it's cool, they see these videos.  But that's not how life really is, you know, and so those are the ones I want to reach out to, I  want to get them before they are influenced by the street.  

Bruce - So you got to catch them before high school  

Mia - gotta catch them, I got to catch them before Middle School. I really do. That's how bad it is. We we hear so many, even children, teenagers, that are committing crimes that are doing  things because and some of them not because they don't, they don't know any better. That's  all they've seen. That's all they've seen with their parents, you know, their uncles or my uncle 

sells drugs, I want to wear the sneakers that he wears. But I want to introduce them to a  different life. And with that, I believe God has given me the ability to lead where I can lead  them and their families to something better. And not only education, but as far as Christ as  well. So just change their whole dynamic, though their whole thinking of life.  

Bruce - What are some of your models for leadership? I mean, as leaders, when did you figure out that God was calling you to be a leader, first of all? And secondly, did you have any  models? I didn't feel my calling till I was working in my second church. An understanding of  what leadership is, when did that start dawning on you that yes, I am a leader and I can make a difference. When did that start?  

Mia - I believe that it started to dawn on me when I first walked into that Principal's office to  talk about my kis and about the students that I had been working with. And that was in 1996.  And every it's like, a light bulb just went off in my mind, you know, they need this, they need  someone to really, really go to bat for them someone to really, really be in their corner.  Because society, I mean, this the state, even all of the states, in education, they've just  focused on test scores. When these kids are out here dying. I mean, they literally dying, and  they're not being well educated. They don't know anything else. And that's what I believe the  call was given to me and a man by the name of Kevin Christopher, when I was a teenager was my choir director. And no matter what I did, Kevin, he always loved me. He never treated me  differently. I mean, there were times that I would literally have a drink and then go to church  on a Sunday afternoon because we black people, we stay in church all day. So we have 11  o'clock service and three o'clock service or seven o'clock service. I mean, so I would literally  go into church and he would never judge me. He would just love me. And a lot of the things  that he taught me as a child, that's what I find myself doing to my kids and they're like, Oh,  for real you love me regardless.  

Bruce - Thank God, he put some of those people in our lives.  

Mia - Yes, that makes a difference.  

Bruce - I think it's very important like what you're talking about to have some some models  for kids as they grow up to say, well, you know, I yeah, I do want to be like, right, right. So on  So in some way, shape or form.  

Mia - And it's not that leaders don't make mistakes. It's that leaders learn from those mistakes in the end. Like I always tell my students, I don't I tell you what I did, or what I've  experienced. So maybe you don't have to go down that road, you don't have to experience  that pain. That's something that you can skip, because I'm telling you, it was no fun. So I  mean, and like I said, I did make mistakes. But God, you know, his grace. And that's what  people need to see, they need to see that his grace is sufficient. And it fully equips you.  

Bruce - My wife tells me that you're known to, or at least you told the story about driving  down the street, you see kids hanging out, and 

Mia - I have no fear. I really don't. And it's funny, because I will literally, if I'm driving down the street, I live in a quiet community. But I work and where I work at, I don't mind driving in the  hood, I don't mind and if I see you standing on the corner doing something you're not  supposed to do, I'm going to get you. And I do it the other day. And this is just funny. Um, the  other day, I was looking for a student went to the projects. And when I, when I got first, when I pulled in the parking lot, I said, Oh my God, it was just a big old truck full of boys and all you  could see is smoke coming through the windows. And I said, oh, Lord looked at these boys. I  said, God, I know you got my back. So I get out the car. And I'm like, kind of nervous at first.  And then I'm like, Nah, I'm just gonna go ahead and walk. I start walking, literally, the doors  fly open from the truck. Hey, Miss Clark. You was my principal. Hey, Miss Clark. And I'm like,  Oh, my God. So I walk over to the, to the truck, and I just started fussing at them. Boy, put  that marijuana down, you don't need to be. God has given me No, fear. I have no fear.  

Bruce - and a real courage as well. Right? That too is a gift. And you say it is something to say that God equips where he calls if he's gonna call us, into something he equips us to do it.  

Mia - That's right. And I just don't have a spirit of fear. I just, I just walk. And it's funny,  because they literally they started to put out their marijuana, they started rolling down the  windows and the smoke out. I mean, pulling up your pants, it was like, Okay, well, at first, I  was thinking, wow, you know, I don't, I don't know these boys. But, I did.  

Bruce - Apparently, you have held up for them a vision of something that's different, and  hopefully freeing for them eventually, and that sort of thing. And they, they know what that  is? Yes. Hopefully they'll make those choices. Yes. Yes, yep. Well, we've got a lot of people out  there who are going to be watching this anything you would say to them finally, as far as  being a leader? What are some of the maybe a lesson or two, success or a failure, whatever  you'd like to share with a group of people that are going to say, Okay, I understand that  culture is very now it's extremely varied. And that's an exciting thing. We aren't all made  alike. And our situations all aren't alike any final thoughts you'd say God it really want to be  thinking about that.  

Mia - Lead with love. I believe that. That's it. For me, I lead with love, I lead with love. For my  staff, I lead with love for my cheek for the students, even for their families. And they know me for that. They they know me, no matter what they know that Miss Clark is going to love them  Miss Clark is going to be there and support them. So I lead with love and it just draws people.  The loving kindnesshave I drawn thee. And that's it lead with love.  

Bruce - I forget the saying, but it's something about people follow you to the extent that they  know you love them.  

Mia - They will, especially young people, especially young people.  

Bruce - I imagine children. I mean, children, that's hugely important. They care about me. It's  not just I'm a person.  

Mia - Right, right. And a lot of them what's really sad is in our communities, a lot of our  children are not loved, or they don't feel loved, because they didn't get it from mom, or they  didn't get it from dad or dad wasn't in the home. So to give them that like in my school now.  I'm the Mama Bear, you know, I fuss at you. I discipline you and I love on you all at the same  time and they love that.  

Bruce - Thank you so much for being here.  

Mia - I enjoyed it. 

Bruce - I hope you caught on to some of the things we've been talking about about culture,  the way we do things here. Here are some things that we just heard about a different culture  than what I've been presenting to you is slightly different but some of the needs and our  leader you know, relax to the needs within that culture defining how things are done here in  order as we're going to talk about soon to the develop a vision for the future. Mia has given us a great vision to say okay, it's not happening the way I want it to happen the way I think it  should happen so I'm going to start another school and we're gonna make it happen there. It  starts with that kind of leadership interacting with a culture and so appreciate you helping  enlighten us.  

Mia - Well, thank you for having me. I really enjoyed it.  

Bruce - Thank you.