Henry Reyenga - Well, welcome back to the church planting class. And we have  a real privilege today to have Mr. Rich DeVos. Rich founded co founded Amway  in 1959. He also is owner, the Orlando Magic, he has started businesses. He is  an entrepreneur. I'm in his office with him today. And I look around I see awards  Entrepreneur of the Year 1997. He is someone who can talk to us about how to  start things, how to do new businesses. Rich, welcome to the class, you're going 

to be with us for the next several presentations. And so I'm excited. And I'm so  glad that you're with me today.  

Rich DeVos - Well, we've got a long track record on all this stuff anyway. So I  want to congratulate you on how far you've come on this. It's all new, and it's  creative, and it's terrific. Well,  

Henry Reyenga - in 1990, we actually started our relationship. We've been  together almost 20 years, you've been mentoring me since 1994. And I will tell  you that your input into my life, five churches, all that have been directly related  to your help so I thank you as much as you appreciate me, I appreciate you.  

Rich DeVos - You know what, I didn't do any of it. I encourage you, I didn't do  any of it. You did it. Just like the students is not going to be us. It's gonna be  them.  

Henry Reyenga - That's cool. It says in Romans 15:20, the apostle Paul says,  It's always been my ambition to preach Christ, where he was not known. So I  would not be building on someone else's foundation. Paul was a church planter.  He wanted to know if there's already a church planted, he would say, I'm moving on to plant another church. A church is starting something new. And you  understand that? Why have you like starting new things? What has motivated  you over the years?  

Rich DeVos - I, I suspect when we're young, and we are starting a career we  were, we were dedicated to starting a business of our own. We come from  business families, my partner, and I, Jay Van Andel. And so to us, it was all  about starting a business overall, we wanted to own our own business. And it's  sort of what Romans talks about, that when you start it, it's yours, you have  helped create it. And then you can go on and start another church or start  another business, or just stick to the one you got, as you wish. But the idea was  to do something new, that we personally could, I guess, take credit for as  Romans say we did this.  

Henry Reyenga - In your book, compassionate capitalism. You explain the  difference when a social entrepreneur and the compassion and capitalism come 

from compassion capitalists, and part of church planting? You know, is about  raising monitor resources. It's about raising money. It's about understanding  different roles. Can you talk a little bit about that? I remember early in our  mentorship, you had written that book. And I was so impressed by how you  talked about that  

Rich DeVos - that. I'm trying to remember what you were describing what I  defined in my books as a social entrepreneur. Go ahead,  

Henry Reyenga - well, well, you talked about back then they can you can kind of you said that. You said, I'm a compassionate capitalist, the Lord, you know, I  create business. But you pastors and church planters and leaders out there, in  the nonprofit world, so to speak, you know, you're out there, and you've you've  got to do something too. 

Rich DeVos - well, it might be religious, it's certainly more than social. I think our  social engineers, book clubs, and people who start things of that type that aren't  as serious as building a church, or presenting the gospel. But being a  compassionate capitalist, you know, talks about the concept of when you do  well, or succeed at something, it's the sharing of it. It's not only the earning of it,  but you must learn to give it so it's, it's passing it on, if you don't pass it on, then  you haven't completed the cycle. Right? So you start something, you bring  somebody, to know Christ, but then you got to help them learn to bring  somebody fresh, right? That's, that's, but the compassionate side is you also  have got to be concerned with the spiritual well being of that person, you've got  to be concerned about their success. But when I wrote it, it was with Russia in  mind. And with a concept that as they left communism, they would adopt  capitalism and make it a dog eat dog type capitalism, where all they do is make  money. Okay? But the only completion of making money is in sharing your know how and your goodwill and your funds to help others achieve and to eat or help  them. You've got to have a personal caring attitude. If you're going to really be a  successful capitalist in my opinion,  

Henry Reyenga - and part of that social entrepreneurs. You defined it. I  remember back then, and you said, you know, there will be those who go out  and meet the needs of mercy. There'll be those who will plant churches. there'll  be pastures and together, the social entrepreneurs and the compassionate  capitalist capitalist come together and partner to make a great culture.  

Rich DeVos - But they're it all entrepreneurs. You know, if you're a Christian,  you're you should be a giver, yes. And you have a concern for the poor and the  hungry, and the need and the prisoners and, and all that, but just making money 

is not enough. So that does not complete your life. And so when you think of  people starting churches, you know, we're adapting a business model to a  church almost real, we're trying to say building. A church is an entrepreneurial  activity, and a whole different realm really,  

Henry Reyenga - well, a lot of church pastors. They don't think of themselves  that way. They go to seminary, they learn how to preach a sermon. And this  church planter entrepreneurs side is something that many times they don't think  about. It's  

Rich DeVos - what you see, if a church doesn't bring in new people it will die.  Yes. So if you haven't a patent, you have to be an entrepreneur, if you're going  to be a successful pastor because you have to be salways witnessing and  bringing new people in. Wow, Every church has drop out, every church has  people will fade away in our business, we have great numbers of people who  come and go, and you have people come and go on your church and they don't  come back, right. Or you have people who are members and go out another  church, or just drop out of the church entirely. If you don't replace them and your churches withers away and dies. Now there are stages church goes through, but you may want to talk that at a later time,  

Henry Reyenga - we're gonna get to that because that made a big impact on my life a little earlier. You know, in a church, you really, in church planting you  minister with people. And in II Corinthians Paul talks about that when we came  into Macedonia, this body of ours had no rest, but we were harassed and every  turn conflicts on the outside and the and fears within and a lot of church  planters, and I've been with church planters, train them at CLI, I find that people  scare them, or walls that they have, and I read your excellent book 10 powerful  phrases for positive people, can you like, highlight some of those phrases, don't  do all 10, but maybe a few to hit in your mind as regard to like overcoming some of that resistance and that working with people.  

Rich DeVos - But you know, Henry, if you go back to the II Corinthians  reference, it says, We were harassed at every turn conflicts on the outside fears  within. So you know, we act like we can do these things and not have those  things, right. We are going to have conflicts, we're going to have people laugh at us are going to people will turn us down, tell us we're crazy. There's going to be  a fear within ourselves, that will get somebody to take a swing at us, because  they resent what we're talking about, or they don't want to hear what we're  talking about. In our case, government agencies will say you're not doing it right, you're illegal, you're this and, and so you have to put up with even governmental interference. 

Henry Reyenga - And that may be a case for many pastors in the future,  wherever they are.  

Rich DeVos - They may have governments that resented the government's want loyalty to the government, they resent the church, the church becomes an  intrusion in who they trust and who they believe in. And so you will have  resistance but resistance on the part of the person, your resistance on the part  of their family. When we started our business, we said we will never present to  an individual without talking to the spouse and having them together. Because  you get one of them say Yes, I believe I want to go to your church, but then their  husband or wife, oh, I don't want to do that I'm opposed to that. So always try  and engage both of them. When you start that conversation that gets rid of the  one of the harassments, right?  

Henry Reyenga -I actually I remember you mentored me in that years and  years and years ago. And what I used to do early in my ministry is I would talk to the one and I always found that it was problems. And then after you had  mentored me in the mid 90s. From that point on, I had them into my house for  hospitality. And I wouldn't even do my whole discussion of the church until we  had them into our house when they were both there. And I will tell you, that was  a big game changer.  

Rich DeVos - Well, that's all about leadership and management and, and  witnessing. It's you can't get a message through unless you have a relationship  with a person. Yes, you have to you know we all share two steps to making a  sale. The first step is getting them to agree to listen to the presentation. The  second step is the presentation of the gospel. The good news, the bad news but Don't try to conflict the two, make sure you clearly define getting them to take  times they can I come overnight and talk to your husband and be there. I'd like  to talk to both of you. just working? What would you want to talk to me about? I  want to talk to you about life changing materials, I want to talk to him about  something very important to you. But I'm not going to get to hit you up for any  money, I'm not going to try and make a sale. But I do want to present something  to you that will impact your life for good now, but that doesn't make any  difference. If you don't want to see me, you know, that's the first thing are you  willing to sit down and listen to something like that? First, get the appointment,  get them to take time to listen, then.  

Henry Reyenga - Interesting, very cool. In your book 10 powerful phrases. Use  that book to me is like the textbook on how to treat people. Yesterday, Jerry and  I had a day where we could just kind of walk on the beach. And I was thinking 

about your book. And I was talking to people and, and, and just some of those  things like respect and talking with them and listening to what so many people  gave me their cards. And I mean, one guy from New Orleans invited me in New  Orleans, who is he was at the Saints game. So he was he invited me down  there. I'm going to show you do Orleans, the Bourbon Street area? And just by  walking  

Rich DeVos - how did he Why did he? Why did you start talking too how did you  start talking to him?  

Henry Reyenga - He and his wife were on the beach and they were having their  camera and they are and they're taking the picture and I just walked up to him  and asked, Would you like me to take that picture for you?  

Rich DeVos - Oh perfect. That's, that's such a natural thing to do. But most  people don't. You know, in our hotels, we actually train our employees to do just  that. Is that right? If you ever see a couple, and you know, they always say, Oh,  I'll take a picture you want to be in it. Just a moment, let me take the picture for  you. Right,  

Henry Reyenga - like 20 times those to the opener. Yeah,  

Rich DeVos - and then talk and that developed. And, you know, I always found  in trying to make a gospel presentation, I have to establish credibility with them,  I have to establish a relationship with them. And that's done in my way, by  asking questions. Right? Well, hi. Let me take a picture for you. Where do you  guys come from? What do you do do you have a job? And how long have you  been in Florida? Why did you come up here and ask them questions, and they  began to share things with you. And then after you done that a while this is why  the way to church members to your church, you go to, or do you have a spiritual  relationship with God. And you get into that and they they find the answer. They  do or they don't. And so now you have a range of how to talk to them where they are. So you learn about them by listening. Then you say well, let me tell you  what I believe. But usually they will say well, what do you believe? Right? So  you don't have to start the religious conversation they do. What do you believe?  Actually? Well, I'll tell you what I believe and what I am and why, why really, I'm  talking up here today. I'd like to just sit and talk to you about whenever you have  time.  

Henry Reyenga - What do you what do you do we think of someone? I mean,  what? How do you look at them? You know, and I think a lot of church planters  struggle with that. Like if they see somebody with a bunch of tattoos or they see 

someone who's just, you know, not in there, like a comfortable people group.  You know, I mean, in some way and I've watched you I mean, we've been to  various Orlando Magic games together. And you just met the owner of the  Magic. I've seen you talk to a bellboy or a gal who's a maid and you'll ask him  you'll you'll say you'll say, you know I hear that your mother was sick. You know,  that's just as not the common thinking. And a lot of church planters don't  necessarily think that way either. They think about writing their sermon and  putting their program together. There's something special about that. How do  you how do you do that?  

Rich DeVos - Two different subjects. You know, one is prioritizing time to go out  and meet people. You've got to make it your business. If you're in business to go out. Out of your church, out of your office, out of your home you got to get where 

people are you can talk to it always got something to do we've always got a  funeral you got you got to prepare for your you got baptism you got to do you  know you got a sermon to write, you always have things to do at all, your wife  has things for you to do, too right? It wipes out things for you too. So, you have  to allocate time and say this is the day I go out. And this is the day I go to rotary  club so that you are in the community. Not just sitting in your office, sitting in  your office will kill your church and kill your business.  

Henry Reyenga - That is incredible. Wow. You know, if a pastor is not self aware, a church can naturally fall into problems. And I once heard you talk about you  brought it up a little bit. And I'd love to have you share that you told me that  years ago, and it's never left me, could you share the stages of the phases of a  church? And what a pastor ought to do not to get his church in a funk? You  

Rich DeVos - know, it's true churches, home families, it's true of schools, it's true of the government. And that is a matter of how do we keep focusing on building  the enterprise. If you have a government, you want to keep moving forward, not  just sitting here talking about how to swap the same money around, how do we  

create new wealth for our country, so all of our people prosper. But it's not a  case, some people think there's only a limited amount of wealth, or there's only  so many people in this town, they have a percentage for going to come to  church. Well, if there's an unlimited number of people in this town, any town that  will come to church, if they're approached correctly. So you got to, first of all,  when you start a church, you build it. That's stage one. Now it's got going and  you got 10, you got 20, people come into your home, or your church or school,  wherever you wherever you gather, it really doesn't make any difference. A fancy building doesn't really do it. Most little churches start in garages or basements.  I've held 1000s of meetings in somebody's garage, or in their living room to help  them start a business that is all over the world. After you got it started, you have 

to manage it. Now you've got 20 people in your church, you they some of them  have funerals, some of them have births, some of them have conflict, some of  them have children, who are, they need to help you talk to you a little bit. All  these things are going on. Now you've got to raise money, run your church, and  I gotta raise that you, you've got to find a new place to meet, you got to prepare,  the sermon. You didn't have this before. Now you got to do all these things that  you think are important, right? So but you do have to attend to them. Right? You  just got to prioritize. But if you do that, pretty soon, you don't have time to  witness. You don't have time to go out and talk to new people, you are so busy  running your business or your church, that you get stuck right there. And that's  the extent of your church growth. Now you say, well, I'll get my people to do that. See, then you're always gonna motivate your people. That's good. And maybe  that works. Sometimes it'll work for a few of them. But teaching them to do what  you have a hard time doing. You give some idea that degree of difficulty, doable, yes, I've done it all over. That's how I got my business where it is by teaching  them to duplicate the process. What if you stay there long enough, pretty soon  your church will get very stagnant. Now you have the same little group of people coming and they'll all start to chat to each other, and they'll have a cozy little  deal. But that isn't what you want. You want to build a church, not run a church,  right? And so if you stay there long enough, you'll be you go into what I call a  defensive posture. You'll meet somebody else who's building a church and say,  What are your church? Oh, so anyway, should you know in my town, I just can't  find anybody. The people in my town are so cold, I can't believe this is I got so  many bills to say in our economy is bad. And you've got a whole defensive or  excuse posture, that you build up to justify why it won't work where you are. And  if you stay there long enough. I mean, it might be a month might be two months,  depending on how much money you're gonna have for how long even afford to  keep stalling. Right? Before you generate new revenue. Then you go to stage  four, the stage four is what I call a blaming stage. And now you blame the  people in your church for not bringing new people in. You blame them for not  giving more money so that you can improve your billing because if you had a  better parking lot, you'd get more people I'm surely if we have more parking. I've heard people tell me parking was old, center the church. If we only had a better  building, you know, and better hymnals whatever it is, that's your defensive  posture, but it's community. It's cause it's, it's never the fact that you aren't going out there talking to people anymore. But the whole church, a way of building a  church is to build a church. Right? It didn't matter where Paul, well, sure he  didn't talk about the World Series or he didn't talk about the last Super Bowl. Or  he didn't even talk about the shipwreck. He gets on the beach and starts  preaching. He was always preaching. I had a friend, Anthony Scioli, and when  he was converted in a prison, and he talked to another man, and he told him  about the gospel and he became a Christian accepted Christ. And as he left, the

man said, Sciolli, witness, witness witness, those are the words that stuck in his  head. He became known as the walking Bible. He knew the Bible, memorized  from right, back to front. In his prison cell, he put it in front of the keyhole, so you get light when the lights went out. And he put it in front of the keyhole, so he  could read the Bible, until he eventually get all memorized. So now who do I  witness to? I mean, I'm in prison. Well I guess, I got to witness to the jailer, the  guy who called me and brings me my food, the jailer who watches over this sort  of sort of the jail, that's the man do he started witnessing to him, That was the  first guy he could find. Then he could find a few out in the yard when he went on  breaks. So what always seeking to witness and so if you're a church builder, you have to always be seeking to present that. If you do that, then what happens to  your people? They follow your example. 

Henry Reyenga - Yeah, there's buzz created in the whole church, because  

Rich DeVos - what, there's new people coming in, when they see new people  coming in, and it becomes easier for them to bring new people in. If they see a  church that dead than they are comfortable being dead. You have a zone of  comfort it happens.  

Henry Reyenga - Well, with that, let's conclude this first presentation and we  look forward to seeing you next week or next time. And we're having a great  privilege to talk to our master business builder and entrepreneur and encourager



Last modified: Thursday, January 4, 2024, 2:03 PM