Video Transcript: A Generational Conversation about Identity

Well, welcome to this final session of the Mark of the Lion mini course here at Christian leaders and Peacefire with me in this session, and I have one of my sons, Neil DeCook. And Neil is 30 years old. And we both live in the same city and he is married and part of a, obviously a younger generation than I am. And we wanted to have this conversation with you to talk about the mark of the lion being identified with Jesus Christ, and how different generations are experiencing this move of intersectionality. And people finding their identity in places other than Jesus Christ, and my observations as a 60 something year old and Neil's observation being in, in his 30s is markedly different, his experiences with the people that he meets in encounters are different than those that that I'm around most of the time. And so we thought this conversation might be interesting, and hopefully fruitful. And may the Lord use it for your blessing and for His glory. And so, Neil, let me just start. Tell us a little bit about yourself, how long you've known the Lord. And so give some context to who you are. Yeah, well, thank you for thanks for inviting me in to do this, have this conversation with you, too. It's, I know, this is something we've, this is a this is something we've wanted to do for a long time in different different arenas. And so to be able to get on and do this, this is exciting. So yeah, I obviously grew up, I grew up in a Christian household. So just because of because of that, I knew the knew of the Lord. Early, early on in my life, I don't really remember a time in my life when I didn't know about Jesus. And he's, you know, he's always been a part of my life. But I was, I was, you know, I was baptized when I was, goodness, eight, nine years old. And accepted the Lord as my as my Savior at that at that point. But as as many people who grow up in the, in the faith experience as they get older, they, they, you know, I learned that my faith needed to be my own one. And so as I, as I matured into college, that was when I really it really started to hit me a little bit harder as an adult, that my that, that Jesus wasn't just my saviour, he's also my Lord. And so around that time in my life was when that trends transformation began to happen in my life where I wasn't just saved, but I was also owned, and my identity. And this is this will be something that we talk a lot about today. But that was when my identity began to really be formed in Christ. At that point in my life, and I have to do to so many people's influence, none that none more than yours, in my own life, but so that, you know, that transition began to happen as I was in college, and then I met my wife met Cassidy, and we got married and moved here to Fort Wayne. And so recently, I've been working in marketing, but I actually had a two year stint as a youth pastor, which was, which was an amazing opportunity at our local church for me to really experience what what it's like to have ministry be your occupation, and in that, in that role, I was a middle school youth pastor. And so I grew up having influence in my life from the older generation. And then at this stage in my late 20s, I was able to have this influence on the younger generation and was able to be exposed to and see a lot of the things that are important to them, that are influencing them and our help are, you know, creating their decision making processes. And obviously, parents are part of that, but school has a huge part to play in that social media has a large, much larger part to play in that than it ever has. And so witnessing that, for two years, was a fantastic opportunity, not just to minister to them, but also for me to grow and to learn. And then as I transitioned out of that, A season of my life, I'm back into marketing now, which is what my degree is in. But also it's it's social media marketing. So I still get to kind of see the effect that our culture is having. And not just our culture, but decisions that people are making and how they communicate what that's having on the people around us, around me and on myself, and how do we, how do we walk through that, as believers as people who find their identity in Christ is something that's incredibly important, and is becoming more and more of an important part of my life, and my, my daily walk with the Lord, seeing that through seeing life and seeing my relationships through with people through that lens is something that has become kind of a passion of mine. So that's probably more than what you needed to hear about me, but a little bit about who I am, it's very helpful, you know, and I, you know, I can your mom and I give thanks, you survived our parenting, and with the relationship with the Lord intact. And, you know, it's, it is exciting for us to see you, seeking the Lord in your life and walking with him. And being able to have these kinds of conversations together is extremely rewarding as a parent, but just for our listeners, you're also you, you've observed the growth of the birth and growth of both Christian leaders, ministries and Peacefire. And you're a board member, you're the chairman of the board of Peacefire right now. And you're a member of the Christian leaders Alliance. And so I think that gives our listeners some background on who you are and your familiarity with, with the two ministries that are sponsoring this mini course. And so let me dive into a question here. And so what does identity mean to this generation? And that is a great question. It's, it's complex, because we're really, we're lumping a couple of generations together, we have, you know, when I think of my generation, and then we really have one generation that's younger than me, we have the millennials, and then we have our Gen Z generation, and then there's another one quickly following them. But what's interesting for this generation for these generations, is that it's very abstract identities very, it's very complicated. If I could simplify it as much as possible, though, it's, I think identity is something that's kind of described as something that that is to be discovered. For our generation, it's not something that is concrete, it's something that you as you get older, you are expected to figure out what your identity is, it's not something that can be. And I think, I think in a large part, that's, that is true for a lot for everyone you do discover who you really are as you grow and as you mature. But it's not just one thing for this generation, your identity is not, it's not being taught that you can find your identity in one element of who you are. It's, it's almost required of every person in my generation and younger, to decide where you stand on almost every issue that you could possibly imagine and then assigned that, that issue as a part of your identity. So the the most prominent things for us right now are race, gender, sexual orientation, sexual preference, your political party eventually becomes a part of that your religion is a part of that, or it's described as a part of that. Even things as conceptual as, like an Enneagram number, like those things all come into play. As part of what what my generation has largely started clinging to for what our identity is what makes me the issue, I won't get into the issues with that yet, but what does start to happen when that is how things are structured is a lot of especially younger people, if they start that process early on, in their life, which is becoming that's becoming true more and more is, I mean, you have people who are you have kids who at the age of three are having decisions forced on them that are not you should be making when you're three years old, but what happens is those things start to overlap, and they'll you know if it's gender or sexuality, or you name it If you take one of those issues, and you make a decision about where you fall, or where you, you know what your, what part of your identity, you're going to assign to that thing, our generation will then take another issue and pile it on top of that. And this is where intersectionality, kind of the definition of intersectionality comes into play is now I've got 15 Different parts of my identity that all intersect at, me and so I have a unique because of that I have a unique identity. And I'm not saying me, but my generation has a unique identity, because I've picked and chose, you know, chosen from each of these issues or topics or parts of how I feel about something, and made that who I am. And it's as a young person in particular, but for anybody really, if you care about what other people think of you, that becomes a real mess, because now you have an entire generation two generations of people who have based their existence on one issue or another or multiple issues, and anyone who it now seems like anyone who disagrees with that issue that you've chosen to define yourself by, is now taking issue with you as a person, not just an issue. And it becomes incredibly difficult for, for young people to process that, like, young people are not equipped to handle someone coming at them as a person and saying that part of their identity is wrong, part of who they are, is wrong. But that's, that is what identity has become for my generation and those younger, is it's just become a pain, it is so meaningful to them. But it is also a constant pain point, because there's always going to be a population that says, a part of who I have decided that I am, is against them or, or wrong. And that is, that's a hard thing for anybody to handle. But the more elements of you, that are like that makes more and more of you disagreeable to someone else. And that's a that's just incredibly difficult to process. or comprehend. For someone who doesn't process. You know, for my generation identity was much more objective, in terms of you are identified by what you did for a living, who's your family? What town you come from? You know, I think that there's certain characteristics that are always part of, you know, your appearance, do you appear to be a man or woman, do you appear to be, you know, your skin color is a is an attribute. That, you know, my generation was, you know, brought up, I was raised in the generation of Martin Luther King, and to where, you know, the content of your character of was more important was emphasized as being more important to your identity than just your appearance. Right. And so, identity was, was a little more objective in nature. And then character was emphasized and important in in who you who you know, how you identify, and yourself as a person of good character of integrity of honesty, sincerity, truthfulness, and all the things that now have a little more subjective bent to them. It seems and, and so my subjective identity, it seems there's a component that is you're alluding to acceptance of those identities that people develop, is it an extract seems to be and maybe you can talk about this, there seems to be an expectation of acceptance of my subjective identity, whether you know what it is or not, and so can you talk about that at all how your generation looks at that, maybe differently than my generation would? Yeah, that's, that is a great question. And it's, that is, that's another that's a loaded question, because you start to get into when you dive into that question, that's where we start to have to ask, why are we why is that why has it changed? Why is it different and the The why for for that shift? I think it's, it's the answer to that is vast. Like I think that there's a lot of different things that have impacted why we feel differently about our I like how you, I like that the name for that subjective identity because it's, it's, it's what do I feel is my is my identity not an and it is it's all my own decision about myself. It's not a well this is this is what exists. And so this is a concrete thing that anybody could observe and say, this is this is something about this person that's important to them. Much of my generation and younger is identity is is not visible, it's not concrete, it's an ended variable opinion based, which is what subjective means. But if someone were to cross the line in a suit, you know, make an assumption about someone's identity, that was incorrect. Even if visually, you were led to assume the opposite or a different version, or different aspect. It becomes a your it is an it's an offense you have I mean, it is almost it almost automatically offends not just that person, but anyone who then decides to take up the take up the mantle of being a Oh, anyone who decides to take up the mantle of being an advocate for that person. That is, you know, and that's, that can be a really good word. And in a lot of settings, being an advocate is very important. And it's very, it's a very meaningful thing to be. But often, there are these toxic scenarios that are created because of that advocacy, because we've placed so much importance on the subjective identity, that is difficult to difficult to ascertain just from having one conversation with someone or just looking at them even. And so the why that has changed. I think a lot of that has shifted, there's there's been a large political reshaping, in the last probably 30, 40 years, that's impacted how issues are talked about. Obviously, social media and the access to everyone's different opinions, has created a dynamic where, you know, you may not have even known that some of these things existed prior to social media. But now because there's so much more available, you can educate yourself, whether it's with truth or not, you can educate yourself and make decisions without, without having any real research done or backed up on those decisions. And so an overload of information, a shift in how our culture kind of views these issues. And then you look at, you know, even the education system and how it has shifted, and who, who gives information to children, and how they're told to make decisions. You know, all of that plays a plays a part in it. The crazy thing is, none of those institutions are inherently bad things none of them are. And probably none of them are trying to be manipulative, or or make people suffer. But because of the nature of the information that's being put out, especially on social media, it creates this upside down. situation where we have people placing their identity in, in a million different elements, and putting so much emphasis on those things. And then your political affiliation being based on those decisions that you made, where before, it was you, you know, you had your faith, and you had your political affiliation, and your job, and your family. And those were the things that were your foundation for how you made decisions about all of those other things. Well, now, it's the reverse of that all of these other little things are the foundation for how my generation chooses what faith they're going to agree with what how they're going to run their family. What political party they're going to affiliate with. It literally has reversed and, and that may have been intentional. Creating that restructuring of how decisions about ourselves are made. But it is interesting you look at, you look at the complete flip flop of that, that dynamic from generation to generation, and it really happened in one, one or two generations, it happened quickly, it was not something that, you know, oh, you have to go back 50, 75 years to see this slow shift, it was really, you know, you look back in the 80s. And, you know, there were, there were things going on, people were doing things differently, but your identity was still, you know, you're, you're a Christian, you're not a Christian, you're in this party, you're in that party. And, you know, those are your decision making filters, you know, you can watch, it's resulted in a very divided and polarized society might, even within the political parties, they're divided, right and, right, right, left, you have a liberal or a progressive or a moderate. And on the right, we have the same dynamic, you know, the, in the extreme, right, and the, the Trump party, part of the party and the non Trump part of the party, and it's divided, wherever seems wherever we look, in these, even within the categories of intersectionality, I think there are some of those categories where there's division, you know, some, some subcategories. And it is, if it's one thing, if there's one impact that all of this has had on our culture, it is very divided. And as followers of Jesus Christ, it's, it's heartbreaking to see that division enter the church, right. And, and so as, as a biblical Christian, someone who holds to the integrity of the Word of God, and someone who wants to honor God's word and follow it, and have their identity in Jesus Christ as their primary identity. So that, you know, from when I was born again, in 1976, you know, that was, the gospel message was, you know, Jesus came to this earth to die for our sins, you could be born again, have new life, and, and follow Him and walk out your days, the rest of your days, as his ambassador as his disciple, and that transformation would begin to occur, and we would become more like Him. And as and then that transformation would be complete when we would see him face to face, right. And so now we have these other identities. And as you mentioned, you know, faith is part of that mix, it's, and so what we're seeing is, many believers and followers of Christ, you know, observing what's happening, some getting pulled into it, some staying out of it. Some listening may be a part of that intersectionality movement and find their identity and a number of different things in Christ being one of them. Right. And so those of us who identify as followers of Christ along the lines, where he says, if you want to find your life, you got to lose it. You know what you take up your cross every day and follow me take up your execution stake. And these are things we've talked about in earlier sessions at this course. So for those who identify, let's talk to that group of that's watching right now who identifies with Jesus Christ as their primary identity, you know, that everything falls under that Lordship that you mentioned earlier? How does someone who identifies with Christ in that way? What do they need to understand about someone who identifies in another way? That might also be identify as a Christian, but not in the same way? Yeah. Yeah, that's a great question. I think that that is that's probably the question that needs to be asked and answered, to an entire two going on three generations of believers because I don't think it's something that my generation has done well, as we've gotten older, we've we've caved to the pressure of believers, you know, believers who find their identity in Christ above all else. We often will find ourselves caving to this pressure to not tell someone that they need, you know that when we're teaching or when we're teaching our youth so as a youth pastor, teaching the youth, it's hard to tell someone, when you accept Jesus as your Savior and Lord, that means that he ranks number one. In all of these things, in fact, he is your identity, when you're marked by the lion, no one should see anything else they should see Christ. And that is our identity when we're when we're saved. And then, at that point, you look at all of these other things that are important to you. And you have to say, that's not my identity. What is Christ telling me, that's not my identity? What is Christ telling me. But as someone who does identify with Jesus Christ, whose identity has found, has been found in Jesus Christ. When we are talking to someone who does not find their identity in Christ, or even perhaps identify, in some portion of their being as a Christian, when we're talking to them, we have to understand that they do not understand what that means they don't understand that Jesus Christ, that their identity should be in Him, they don't, they have not experienced that in that enlightenment, that that Holy Spirit, filling them in the way that says, Everything is in submission to Christ, that either hasn't been explained to them, they've chosen not to believe it, or they just don't understand what that means. And so it is. It's so important for us when we are explaining what we believe to someone to highlight that, and not in a, not in a way that says, You're doing your life wrong, like, you've got all your priorities messed up person, not in a confrontational or in a judgmental condemnational way, but just purely in my own life, saying, you know, hey, when I, when I discovered that my identity should be found in Christ, it completely changed my perspective on all of these other things, the the glimmer and shine of all of these worldly concepts, all of man's wisdom to try to give myself meaning. It, when I compared it to Christ, it was all just trash stubble, it will be consumed in the fire, like none of those things have any meaning or importance when compared with Christ. What you have to be careful with, when you explain that to someone, though, is minimizing their experience. Because what Jesus Christ does do is relate to us, in every single one of those areas, he sees all of that, and relates to us in that whether it's race, whether it's even, you know, even our gender, and sexual orientation, all of these things. Jesus sees them when he sees us, when he loved us, he saw all of that, and chose us and paid for us on over all of that. And so none of that should be minimized. Those are all things that are worth having a relationship with that person for. But so we can't minimize it's, it's, it's hard. And there's a reason why believers everywhere struggle with this, because it's, it's difficult. How, at what point does truth outweigh grace? At what point does? How long do I need to hold on to grace before I start giving someone truth like that, that line is, is difficult. And that's why it's such a hard thing for us to, to walk through with people with our relationships with people who don't identify with Christ because we don't want to offend them. We don't want to we don't want to hurt them. But we also desperately want them to experience who Jesus is and have him in their life. And so, yeah, the boundaries in those conversations, it's difficult. You know, one of those challenges is we're commanded to love all people, brothers and sisters in Christ and our enemies. And what does that mean? Does it mean that we accept everything that may be in someone's life that's contrary to the will of God. And again, this goes back to the importance of how you view scripture Do you hold scripture in high regard? Or do you discount it to allow for some different lifestyles or different ways of living or different perspectives on issues. And so for those who seek to live a life that's in line with, you know, just the plain and simple reading and meaning of the word and not trying to arrive at a desired outcome of interpretation, but just kind of taking, taking it at face value, and is the gospel affirming everything about us? Or is it transforming? I think that's one of our challenges in this in this time, you know, is does loving someone mean we affirm everything about them? Or does loving someone mean that we share with them the good news, and that, that the Lord transfer takes us where he finds us. As you said, he accepts us. He knows everything about us. And he receives us just as we are, but he wants to change us. Yeah, so it's, it's the challenge of what does the word of God affirm? And what does it want to transform? What does he want to transform in us? You got a friend there? is, I think one of the things we wrestle with how to, how to be in relationship with people who are who have different identities than, than the one we're comfortable with, right? Or how we look at ourselves. And so what would you say to someone who's ministering to someone, and they might be timid or fearful, or, you know, just not sure of how to enter into relationship with someone who identifies as something other than that identity that's been marked by the lion? Yeah, yeah, that's a great question. And I there's, there's kind of two, like there's two elements, one of the things that you just touched on. The first is, when we think about when we're trying to think how to how to frame this up correctly, let me start with, let me start with this, when we are a part of the body of Christ, when we have identified, we've identified with Christ and when we have, when, when we understand that our identity is found in him were marked by the lion, he is everything to us, he's our Lord and our Savior. And that completely changes how we see the rest of the world. No matter what element we're looking at, that you can, whether you want to think of it as being marked by the lion, or you think of it as you're a part of the vine, you're, you're a branch, you're a part of the vine. That identity stays with us, no matter where we go. And, and it is, it's all consuming. And so if we are in relationship with someone who has a different identity, they've they have chosen a different identity, or they or they think that whether they want to think of it as they've chosen a different identity, or it's been, it's been assigned to them. With however they've come to their identity, if it's different from our identity in Christ. That is, I think it's really important to realize that that's where, if you're in relationship with that person, that's where the Lord wants you. And He is the one who works on our hearts. He's the one who changes us. When, when, when Christ died on the cross, and rose again. And the Holy Spirit came and descended upon the apostle, the disciples and the Apostles. He did not say, alright, I've done the sacrifice. Now y'all figure it out. And I was like, you've made yourself better. He did not say that. And he also didn't say, Go and change everyone's hearts. He said, Go and make disciples, which is go and be in relationship with people, and I will take care of their hearts. And so when when, and he didn't say he also didn't say, Go and only be with people that are like you. He said, Go and make disciples of every nation of every tribe of every tongue. Those are the people that I want you to be in relationship with. And so we are not called to not be in relationship with someone who's Different with us. In fact, we are called to be in relationship with people that are different from us who have different identities, who think differently about things. So first off, don't be afraid of, you know, my first thing that I would say is do not be afraid of people who have different identities. That is where Christ told us to go. But secondly, and on top of that, when you think of being marked by the lion, when you think of being a part of the of the vine as a branch of the vine, we never lose connection with Christ, no matter where you go, he's there. And that's the important thing to remember is that he is not putting you in relationship with that person, on your own, for you to figure it out, for you to say the right thing, or do the right thing to somehow change their mind, the pressure is off. If you a way that helps me think through those relationships is thinking of each of those intersectionality concepts as a keyhole, to unlocking another level of relationship with that person. And when, when, when the Bible says to love when you know, when when Jesus tells us to love our neighbor as ourselves to love our enemies. He's not saying just to think nice things about them, he's telling us to love them, and so and love who they are, doesn't mean he's not going to change them and sculpt them. But it does mean that that is not our place. So when we are there, in relationship with them, and they clearly care about something that's extremely important to them, that's probably completely different than how I feel about something or think about something, rather than avoiding that thing. Now, at first, you might, you might do the nice social dance and not be confrontational. But rather than avoiding the things that they feel differently about, lean into those things, but confident in your identity in Christ. So confident, in fact that, you know, you don't have to change their mind about that thing you can you can say how you feel about it without, without trying to convince them to feel a different way about it. Yeah, so we often share in our, when we when we find those issues, or those areas of disagreement, we try to those become then the benchmark of the relationship. And then if you don't agree with me, then we can't have relationship or, or it becomes the benchmark of our attitude toward that person or our love toward that person. And that's not the way the Lord instructed us to love. And he instructed us to love others the way he has loved us. And that's what I hear you saying and this powerful, heavy, I think that there's a, there's an element of this, too, that the church often will fall into this is they'll approach a relationship, even with an entire group of the population will approach a relationship in an in an attempt to do just this right to love them to be present with them. And then there will be something that happens where an issue comes up that somebody feels strongly about. And instead of continuing to only find our identity in Christ, and only love them, and be present with them. Instead of doing that, we say, well, this is how we feel about this. So I'm actually going to take a sliver of my identity. This is what happens when we when we start arguing with someone or or we do or we allow ourselves to separate from them or divide. Because of this issue. What happens is we're saying I'm going to take a sliver of my identity that I find in Christ, even if it's even if it's based in truth, right? Even if I'm clinging to the truth, I'm going to take that sliver of my identity and put it in this issue, and say that this issue because it's with this person is now more important than just finding my identity in Christ. And we compromise in doing that. We we Yes, we cling to this truth, but we forget our first love in doing that. And that is an end now. I mean, I think that the evangelical church is largely just splintered their identity in Christ because of this and there's lots of churches that that do this and and individuals that do this too where we take this some issue that and whether it's whether we're clinging to truth or clinging to that relationship I will take a part of our identity in Christ and pull it out, peel it away, and stick it to whatever that topic or issue is at the sacrifice of both my relationship with Christ and my identity in him, and ultimately, at the cost of that relationship with that person, because we no longer are bringing Christ into that relationship anymore. Now we're bringing our own wisdom, we're bringing our own thoughts. And it's no longer Christ's identity. That's there anymore. Go ahead. I'm sorry. No, that is that is just the we forget that so easily, because we want to do the right thing. We want to bless somebody, we want to help somebody. But we have to cling desperately, to our identity in Christ. And when where the pressure there is, is we want people to agree with us. And if they don't agree with us that either makes us uncomfortable, or it causes us to treat them differently. Right, what we haven't learned to do well is how do we, how do we love people that disagree with us? And some would say, Well, you have to give them you give them what they want. You agree with them? You know, and I think there's been a considerable movement in the church to do just that. Whatever. Wherever people find their identity, we're just going to affirm that, right? Even if it's in something that is not biblical or not, biblical truth. And I'm not just talking about sexual preferences, you know, this could be in any of those categories. We're talking about how you look at people who are different from you pick, pick your right pick the difference, you know, we want them to be like us. Because we think we're right, we, you know, we we're relying on Scripture. And if we're relying on Scripture, the Lord said, the most important commandment is Love the Lord first and love others. Out of that love relationship with him. Yeah. And we haven't learned to do that. Well, we're still learning how to do that well, right? How do we love people who disagree with us, without compromising our relationship with the Lord? Yeah. And it's, it's where the spiritual warfare is right now. Because you see that on social media conversations don't last too long before they descend into rhetoric and shouting and name calling and all that goes with it. It's so any, I think you've done a great job of identifying some of these issues for us and challenges for us. Anything else you want to share before we wrap this up? The only thing that came to mind and what you were just you were just describing the, if you look, even back into the Old Testament, when the 10 commandments were originally given, you know, it was You shall have no other gods before me. And then, you know, love, love your neighbor. And and I think, you know, in when Jesus we kind of rephrase that he said, Love the Lord your God, and then love your neighbor. Right? And it was, he simplified it for us, which is, you know, I think if we really looked at a lot of what what Jesus does in our life, he really simplifies it, he takes he does, he takes the burden off of us to atone for our sins, He takes the burden off of us. In in how the Lord accomplishes his work, keep that he does those things for us. But I when when it comes to identity, and relating to those who do not identify with Christ, one thing to recognize is that anybody who puts any element of their identity above Christ is not following the first commandment they have, they do not love the Lord their God. Above all else, they have elevated something, and most likely it's themselves in some way, shape or form. But it's important to recognize that when we're relating with someone who has a different identity than ours, we are not relating to someone who understands who the Lord is, and what he's, you know, how he has made them and who he's created them to be. They don't, they don't know the Lord. And so to come to that relationship with the same expectations and standards as we would for someone who does know the Lord is not, I don't want to phrase this the wrong away. But it's it's not fair to them, they don't. Now the Lord sees them. The same way he sees all of us, we're all broken. We're all sinners. And those of us who have I have put our identity in him, he's redeemed us. But it's important to know, just to Keep in mind that as we walk into these relationships with Christ's identity, and that being our foundation for our entire life, they don't understand that they don't know that they haven't comprehended that yet, the Lord has not yet revealed that to them. And so it is so important to walk with grace in these relationships and and remember that the Lord is the one who, who reveals Himself to them, there is nothing on this earth that I can do to reveal the Lord, to someone else, the Lord is the only one who can do that. And so take the pressure off of yourself in these relationships as you as you go. And you you know, I'm sure we all have people in mind that we're thinking of that you know, or think differently about their life than we do. Take the pressure off of yourself. If you want to think of a sports metaphor, you think of football, and we all want to be the person who's holding the football, who's calling the plays who's doing the amazing thing that gets all the attention gets all the glory. But remember, when we get into heaven, we're going to be throwing our crowns down at the throne, because we're at in that moment, we will fully understand that it was never us that did anything, even though he's going to call us good and faithful servants. It's not because we did all of this amazing work. It's because we knew him. It's because our identity was found in him. He's the one who holds the ball, he is the one who's carrying the load, who's, who's changing hearts, and minds and lives. So take the pressure off of yourself, let go of the ball. And just just like your story in being marked by the lion, just go and be in relationship with people and the Lord will be the Lord is going to sort all of those things out. Just remember who your identity is, and let that be the only thing that matters, in how you relate with people. Yeah, I think two scriptures to close with Ephesians 6:12, that, you know, We wrestle not with flesh and blood, you know, people aren't our enemy. People who disagree with us aren't, aren't that aren't the enemy. This is a spiritual warfare. And our role is to stand as ambassadors of Jesus Christ, to proclaim the gospel and, and the the other scripture that we've shared is that we are the aroma of Jesus Christ. You know, to some, it's the aroma of death, and to others, it's the aroma of life. And the aroma of the lion on our lives is the power of our lives. It's the one thing that marks us. And it should be the love of Jesus Christ. And some people will receive that love in some won't, and it's not up to us. It's not that we didn't love them well enough. You know, I mean, that may be the case from time to time, but it's simply the fragrance of Jesus Christ that draws people to him. And some will reject that and takes the pressure off, as you say, and it is by grace that we're saved by grace that we're transformed. It's by grace that He desires to use us as His ambassadors. It's not a mission and a measurement of our performance. And that make that makes anything of value in the kingdom. It's only what he's doing. So, Neil, I want to thank you for your time. And look forward to doing this again. Thank you. This was a pleasure. I love love talking about this and talking with you. So thank you, Dad, and listeners. Thanks for taking this course. Thanks for seeing it through to the end. God bless you and as you continue, may the Lord, use you in great and mighty ways as you seek Him. And may it all be for His glory and the blessing of the people that he sends across your path. God bless you